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 Did these kids get what they deserved?

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kyarr
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PostSubject: Did these kids get what they deserved?   Mon May 30, 2011 12:03 pm

Excessive use of force, 4th amendment and civil liberty violations or just another college party that got out of hand? None of this made national headlines since this is the same day bin laden was pronounced dead by the president. I've been trying to find more information about how everything went down but there is very little media coverage on this.

Here is footage of what went down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TISVUy-P9M4

Here is another video with an interview of a student attending the event.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufKv-5t0t4E&feature=related

Couldn't find anything with any other points of view however, I would encourage everyone to take a look at these videos and see what you think.
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Creep
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PostSubject: Re: Did these kids get what they deserved?   Tue May 31, 2011 8:15 am

Lack of media coverage for two reasons--

1) Osama died that day.

2) No major media outlet in America wants to discuss civil liberties unless they are related to the disenfranchised classes--and even then, violence is such a status quo in larger population centers that 60 carjackings a month in Memphis go UNREPORTED--it's simply too common to be "newsworthy."

Indiana and Illinois have multiple documented cases of the state supreme court siding with cops when executing unconstitutional (read, warrantless) searches and seizures--even those resulting in the deaths of innocent civilians. How far down the rabbit hole would "investigative reporting" take you, and what sort of recourse do you have when the investigation reveals unconstitutional rulings?

This is Chicagoland. Welcome to the new America.

Live in those states at your peril.

J

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JP
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PostSubject: REALLY???   Tue May 31, 2011 1:47 pm

I thought I knew y’all better than this...

The way I see this is college kids partying in the streets, setting fire to shit, and not obeying lawful orders. In one of the videos it clearly tells them to go into their homes (lawful order) and instead of listening...some of them decide to throw bottles at the cops (dumb move, cancels out the argument of "peaceful gathering") Public intoxication is a crime...a petty one, but none the less a crime, minor consumption...pretty sure there was multiple people doing this...don’t get me wrong i have done both in my past, but when cops get called...well let’s just say if you don’t listen to them you lose!

Just a thought...if this is an annual party...pretty sure there was something that happen in the past that warranted the police presence. Sorry that second video got me fired up...I will go now, but really?


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kyarr
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PostSubject: Re: Did these kids get what they deserved?   Tue May 31, 2011 5:12 pm

The riot squad arrived after some idiots set fire to a stop sign. Those kids should have been dealt with on the spot by the officers that were there. If it escalated further after that, then increase the amount of force used accordingly. It is unlawful to just jump right to the most drastic forms of crowd control.

In order for an order to be considered lawful it has to be given by someone of authority that is not breaking the law themselves. Contrary to popular belief, The Constitution is law. Unwarranted search and seizure is covered under the 4th amendment. If there was suspicion of underage drinking or public intox, then those individuals should have been dealt with accordingly, first off by asking for ID or administering a BAC test.
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Creep
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PostSubject: Re: Did these kids get what they deserved?   Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:43 am

From a force protection (or even law enforcement) standpoint, drunks in a mob will bait cops. The more cops you put there, the more potential for miscues.

The response SHOULD have been as Jerm noted. For whatever reason (including a personal unwillingness to confront a large group of miscreants), cops called for backup rather than spot-correct. The backup came in the form of a pretty overwhelming police presence in riot gear.

This isn't the only one of these happening in America--just one of the most egregious ones recently. Several other gatherings here on the coast were broken up by large groups of police over the weekend. Apparently, there are a lot of "urban weekend" celebrations over Memorial day. All race-baiting aside, the Indiana incident lets us look at what happens WITHOUT all of the usual suspects trying to spin the story--lots of cellcams, lots of perspectives, lots of college kids with youtube access, and plenty willing to talk. For the cops, a BAD DAY.

Typically, you let the assholes have their fun, you tell homeowners they're assuming the risk by living there, and you let the punk-ass college kids do whatever, then play cleanup.

I know of whence I speak, having dropped out of an Indiana college primarily over getting tired of this sort of conduct--which is celebrated in the college culture there--the whole get drunk, play the civil disobedience game (trying to recapture some of the nostalgia of the 60's that your professors wax loquacious about), and then whine about how mean the cops/campus cops were.

On the one hand, I think it's funny that the cops sacked up and kicked some punk ass.

On the other, it's chilling--how do they find the guys who were responsible? What sort of conduct do you then go after? A bunch of kids giving you the finger? Throwing beer cans? Sure, folks are violating the law, but when 50x as many people as your force are violating the law simultaneously--which ones do you go after? Do you go after anyone? What's your ROE? When will one cop decide they've had enough when some privileged little college punk throws his last Heineken bottle?

Better solution? Private citizens and homeowner's associations sue the fucking colleges for promoting this behavior, destroying property and property values, and allowing their students to hazard themselves by vandalizing things to the extent that police respond--in riot gear. Easy to make a direct correlation. Until it hurts the schools' bottom line (and subsequently the students), this shit will continue.

And next year, a cop may shoot.

J

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Fiy
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PostSubject: Re: Did these kids get what they deserved?   Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:57 pm

I say you just pull all police presence from the area. Let the mob of angry drunk and destructive people govern themselves . Had no police presence shown up for this "gross intrusion of constitutional rights", what would be your position then? Bottom line is, if you're acting like a dumb ass, people aren't going to be very intelligent when they're dealing with you. People expect cops to be inhuman. I'm sorry but I'm smashed with a beer bottle I'm flipping the fuck out, I don't expect many of you would act much differently. I'm not a cop lover by any means, I just hate stupidity. Do unto others I guess...

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Engelica
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PostSubject: Re: Did these kids get what they deserved?   Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:05 pm

"Shitty people shouldn't be shittily rewarded for their shittiness"

Love it! LOL!! Sorry, that is the only comment I want to leave.

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lazuras
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PostSubject: Re: Did these kids get what they deserved?   Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:45 am

I liked the second "interview" with a film student who obviously has a great career ahead of him. Lets see your fourth amendment right...good point, the cops said "Please return to your homes." I went through a bunch of the videos online, didn't see any cell phone footage of them busting down doors, they didn't run ID's, they didn't grab a few on lookers and check their blood alcohol...they simply asked people to return to their homes...and those who ran amok down the street got dealt with.

To say it was a peaceful rally, etc, etc, than show a destroyed street with beer cans, bottles, trash, vomit, etc all over the neighborhood is just silly...one thing has stayed true through generations of college aged people, they HAVE never understood that their "rights" end where another person's nose begins. I'm kind of with Z here, if some punk through a bottle at me while I was in uniform I would completely lose my shit, honestly I thought they were pretty kind given the situation.

I wonder how many of those houses are rentals honestly...imagine hearing this story from your property manager for your rental home. All in all, crappy situation, but understanding authority and other's rights have never been a strong suit of the thoroughly plastered.
JJ

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